Hmm, Annie Winter/Hagger is proving a bit of a problem. She says on her wedding cert to Henry James Hagger that she is 21 in 1886 so making her DOB around 1865. Her father is shown as Charles Winter deceased. I can't find an Annie Winter with a father Charles (labourer) in either the 1871 or the 1881 census returns.
There's an Annie Winter living with her mum and siblings in Hanover Square, London but her birth date is 1858 and Annie Hagger was remarkably consistent with her age giving in all her census returns as a married woman.
I've found an Annie Winter living as a "nurse child" in Stoke Newington in 1871 with a family called Koehler, she's 5 which fits for age. By 1881 she has been adopted by them. They are labourers and this fits with the marriage cert. All other Annie Winters born in London are too posh or don't have the right parental name. Its very frustrating but one of those dead end moments where you have nowhere to go BUT I've found one last birth index entry for BRentford in Middlesex for 1868 and that might be worth gambling £7 on it being the right one.
I've found the record of her remarriage to John Henry Carrick in 1904 and Dad remembers her so she must have died post 1929 but I can't find a record -they aren't all complete once you get into more "modern" history. John Carrick was a witness to Leonard and Nellie's marriage in 1915.
Friday, May 18, 2007
Tuesday, January 30, 2007
Tidying Up Loose Ends
Charity Moss was baptised in Tunbridge Wells Kent in 1836, born on 8th October 1836, daughter of George Moss and Elizabeth Clarke. Now on a hunt to find them.
Peter Hagger's hunch about Henry Hagger's marriage cert was spot on. Henry Hagger married
Mary Ann Wrettam Thompson on Nov 7th 857 in St James Church Shoreditch. Henry's father is given as William Hagger and the marriage is witnessed by Elizabeth Emma Hagger. Which makes it certain that the William and Mira Hagger I have found over the censuses are his parents as Emma Elizabeth is also one of their offspring. Mary Ann was previously married to someone called Thompson as she is shown as a widow on the marriage cert to Henry. Henry has several other siblings apart from Elizabeth Emma, there is a Mira junior, a Walter, a William and an Ann. William is shown as a carpenter on the 1851 census and they seem to have lived around London all their lives although Mira Bigny says on all the census returns that she was born in Norfolk in around 1817.
I've also made a breakthrough on the Chambers'. I've discovered that John Robert's father, quoted as being John Robert Carlus on his marriage cert seems to have gone by the name of Robert on all the census' and I think I've found his marraige to Priscilla Grosvnor (sp) in 1875 in Birmingham. This is a second marriage, the eldest son Alfred must be of another marriage I haven't yet found. Priscilla is almost definitely John Robert's mum though and there are two other children noted on the 1881 census for this marriage Emma aged 5 and Amelia aged 4.
By 1891 Priscilla is married to a Thomas Smith so am looking for Robert's death cert atm.
Peter Hagger's hunch about Henry Hagger's marriage cert was spot on. Henry Hagger married
Mary Ann Wrettam Thompson on Nov 7th 857 in St James Church Shoreditch. Henry's father is given as William Hagger and the marriage is witnessed by Elizabeth Emma Hagger. Which makes it certain that the William and Mira Hagger I have found over the censuses are his parents as Emma Elizabeth is also one of their offspring. Mary Ann was previously married to someone called Thompson as she is shown as a widow on the marriage cert to Henry. Henry has several other siblings apart from Elizabeth Emma, there is a Mira junior, a Walter, a William and an Ann. William is shown as a carpenter on the 1851 census and they seem to have lived around London all their lives although Mira Bigny says on all the census returns that she was born in Norfolk in around 1817.
I've also made a breakthrough on the Chambers'. I've discovered that John Robert's father, quoted as being John Robert Carlus on his marriage cert seems to have gone by the name of Robert on all the census' and I think I've found his marraige to Priscilla Grosvnor (sp) in 1875 in Birmingham. This is a second marriage, the eldest son Alfred must be of another marriage I haven't yet found. Priscilla is almost definitely John Robert's mum though and there are two other children noted on the 1881 census for this marriage Emma aged 5 and Amelia aged 4.
By 1891 Priscilla is married to a Thomas Smith so am looking for Robert's death cert atm.
Wednesday, January 24, 2007
Lovely Men and Eureka Moments
Eureka moment! A lovely man in Kent Family History Society has had a look on his Microfiche records and found William and Ann Browne living in Weller's Row, Faversham baptising their baby Stephen on Feb 25th 1836. I am fairly happy that this is them - William gives his occupation as labourer and it ties in with everything else we know about Stephen. I've asked the kind soul to look for other sibilings and also for a marriage for William and Ann as this would give us Ann's maiden nam and William's father's name I hope. Every time I get back bit now I just feel so triumphant as I never expected to get anywhere. Browne with an e - hmmmm, can't find them for certain on any census with or without an e... a rose by any other name... :-) Still as poor as hell, don't think there's going to be any unclaimed riches Trev!
Still struggling with the Haggers but Peter Hagger from the One Name Study has suggested
two possible marriages for Henry (father of Henry James) so I shall gamble £7 on the most likely one and order the certificate. I think I've found Henry Hagger as a child, living with his father William and mother Mira in the 1841 and 1851 census records in Shoreditch. William is a carpenter. Mira is an interesting name....a variant of Mary apparently but with Jewish and Hindu origins...perhaps that's where our darker skin tone comes from!!!
Oooh, oooh, OOOOOH.
I've found a marriage record for William Hagger to Mira Bigny on the Pallots Marriage index.
1834 St Giles Cripplegate. Must, must, must get Henry's marriage cert to prove these are his parents. Bigny sounds French. Wow some exoticism at last!!! The 1851 census says she was born in Norfolk.
I could really do with a microfiche reader if anyone in my family is reading this and wants to buy me a birthday present that I would truly appreciate!!!
Still struggling with the Haggers but Peter Hagger from the One Name Study has suggested
two possible marriages for Henry (father of Henry James) so I shall gamble £7 on the most likely one and order the certificate. I think I've found Henry Hagger as a child, living with his father William and mother Mira in the 1841 and 1851 census records in Shoreditch. William is a carpenter. Mira is an interesting name....a variant of Mary apparently but with Jewish and Hindu origins...perhaps that's where our darker skin tone comes from!!!
Oooh, oooh, OOOOOH.
I've found a marriage record for William Hagger to Mira Bigny on the Pallots Marriage index.
1834 St Giles Cripplegate. Must, must, must get Henry's marriage cert to prove these are his parents. Bigny sounds French. Wow some exoticism at last!!! The 1851 census says she was born in Norfolk.
I could really do with a microfiche reader if anyone in my family is reading this and wants to buy me a birthday present that I would truly appreciate!!!
Sunday, January 21, 2007
Very frustrating morning but minor success
I've spent all morning trying to get past the dead ends.
The CD-ROMS I've got from Kent Family History soc only go up to 1812, as Stephen Brown was born in about 1835 this doesn't help. The online records at Ancestry/free BMD only go from 1837. Have joined the KHFS email list to see if anyone can help me find out how to track down records which fall in this apparent hole.
Someone pointed out that Charity Brown nee Moss is shown on the 1861 census that she was born in Frinton, Wales. This doesn't help at all as there is no Frinton in Wales. I'm sure this is a wrong transcription but can't work out what it should be.
The only positive breakthrough I've had is that I think I've found George Risely Hulett's parents, Samuel and Mary on the 1861 census.. They are living in a house in Milton Ernest, on their occupation it says Alms Man and Alms woman, a Google search confirms my thought that they were in receipt of charity. Samual's birthplace is given as Bromham, Bedfordshire and Mary's as Pavenham. And then BETTER STILL, ta-da, they are listed on the Pallett's Marriage Index (which mainly covers London) as being married in 1808 in Pavenham, Beds it all ties in nearly as its so near Oakley where George was born (as is Bromham) see map. So its Mary Berry born around 1793 that Samuel married. Am now going to join the Beds family history society to get hold of their CD-ROM records which go way back and as I think I have Samuels date of birth as 1786 then I'm not going to fall into the same records hole as I have been with the Browns.
The CD-ROMS I've got from Kent Family History soc only go up to 1812, as Stephen Brown was born in about 1835 this doesn't help. The online records at Ancestry/free BMD only go from 1837. Have joined the KHFS email list to see if anyone can help me find out how to track down records which fall in this apparent hole.
Someone pointed out that Charity Brown nee Moss is shown on the 1861 census that she was born in Frinton, Wales. This doesn't help at all as there is no Frinton in Wales. I'm sure this is a wrong transcription but can't work out what it should be.
The only positive breakthrough I've had is that I think I've found George Risely Hulett's parents, Samuel and Mary on the 1861 census.. They are living in a house in Milton Ernest, on their occupation it says Alms Man and Alms woman, a Google search confirms my thought that they were in receipt of charity. Samual's birthplace is given as Bromham, Bedfordshire and Mary's as Pavenham. And then BETTER STILL, ta-da, they are listed on the Pallett's Marriage Index (which mainly covers London) as being married in 1808 in Pavenham, Beds it all ties in nearly as its so near Oakley where George was born (as is Bromham) see map. So its Mary Berry born around 1793 that Samuel married. Am now going to join the Beds family history society to get hold of their CD-ROM records which go way back and as I think I have Samuels date of birth as 1786 then I'm not going to fall into the same records hole as I have been with the Browns.
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